#Brighton #London and other #England & #Europe friends:

🎪 #IndieWebCamp Brighton tickets are available!
🎟 https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/brighton-2024
🗓 2024-03-09…10
🏢 The Skiff, Brighton, England
🌐 https://indieweb.org/2024/Brighton

Grab an in-person ticket (limited capacity) then optionally add yourself to the list of participants: https://indieweb.org/2024/Brighton#In_person

For more information, see organizer @paulrobertlloyd.com (@paulrobertlloyd@mastodon.social)’s post: https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2024/032/a1/indiewebcamp_brighton/


Also check out @ClearLeft.com (@clearleft@mastodon.social @clearleft)’s “Patterns Day” (https://patternsday.com/) in Brighton the Thursday (2024-03-07) beforehand!


Previously: https://tantek.com/2024/022/t1/indiewebcamp-brighton-planned


This is post 9 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts #IndieWeb

https://tantek.com/2024/035/t1/greshams-law-developers-users-jargon
→ 🔮
#Brighton #London #England #Europe #IndieWebCamp #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts #IndieWeb
Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.

Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.

Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.

Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.


The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single #indiewebcamp IRC channel (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.

It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.

As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.

The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.

Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue a thread in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. There was also a need for regular community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.


We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge them to the development channel.

Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.

We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.

Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.

It takes a village: eternal community vigilance is the price of staying user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.

The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰


This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available


Post glossary:

development channel (indieweb-dev)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
Discord
  https://indieweb.org/Discord
format
  https://indieweb.org/format
Hacker News (HN)
  https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
IndieWeb
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
IRC
  https://indieweb.org/IRC
jargon
  https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
  https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
Matrix
  https://indieweb.org/Matrix
meta chat channel
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
  https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
  https://indieweb.org/protocol
Reddit
  https://indieweb.org/Reddit
tools
  https://indieweb.org/tools
Slack
  https://indieweb.org/Slack
social media silos
  https://indieweb.org/silos


¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html (2008 essay, HN still succumbed to trolling)
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/jargon
https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800
#Matrix #Slack #Discord #HackerNews #jargon #IndieWeb #indiewebcamp #indieweb-dev #indieweb #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts
Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.

Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.

Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.

Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.


The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single IRC channel #indiewebcamp (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.

It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.

As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.

The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.

Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue such threads in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. It was also a constant bit of community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.


We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge them to the development channel.

Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.

We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.

Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That common purpose keeps us focused.

It takes a community to keep a community healthy and welcoming to newcomers. Eternal community vigilance is the price of a user-focused and newcomer-inclusive community.

The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰


This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

development channel (indieweb-dev)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
format
  https://indieweb.org/format
IndieWeb
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
jargon
  https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
  https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
meta chat channel
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
  https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
  https://indieweb.org/protocol
tools
  https://indieweb.org/tools
social media silos
  https://indieweb.org/silos


¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/jargon
https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800
#Matrix #Slack #Discord #HackerNews #jargon #IndieWeb #indiewebcamp #indieweb-dev #indieweb #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts

CarMax is great

IFC Center

Let’s Argento! 🧙‍♀️🔪

I felt the #earthquake here in #SanFrancisco. A single quick sharp jolt with rapid decay, duration less than 2s, meaning it was relatively nearby and small in magnitude

I was about to say, perhaps #earthquakes are the last use-case for #Twitter because yes I reflexively checked it and did see posts about it from folks, including a few friends.

Then I checked https://indieweb.social/tags/earthquake and it has plenty of recent #fediverse posts about the earthquake, several @sfba.social.

Feels like something big has shifted.

The #federated #IndieWeb has replaced another #socialMedia silo use-case.

This is post 7 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/027/t1/indieweb-ideals-systems-swappable
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

silo
  https://indieweb.org/silo
social media
  https://indieweb.org/social_media
use-case
  https://indieweb.org/use_case
#earthquake #SanFrancisco #earthquakes #Twitter #fediverse #federated #IndieWeb #socialMedia #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts

Delightful music re-discovery: Emancipator. Good chill, electronic music to work to. Currently listening to 2022’s 11th Orbit.

Bandcamp Friday, February 2024 edition

My relationship with my city changed when I came to #Portland. Before that, I always had the general impression that I lived in my “house” and that house merely happened to be located in a city/town/countryside/etc. But upon moving to Portland, Oregon and really embracing an urban lifestyle, my perspective changed. Now I live in Portland. My house is nothing more than the residence I am physically placed in at various times for sleep, recreation, and remote work. But I also regularly engage in both work and recreation elsewhere in the city, and those places mean every bit as much to me as anywhere I might lay my head at night.

I suppose that may sound quite strange to someone who is very emotionally and nostalgically attached to their literal dwelling. Maybe it’s a personality thing… All I can tell you—as someone who is currently a renter—I have owned my own home in the past and…I ended up hating it. Resenting it.

My allegiance is to a city…MY city…not any particular residential unit within it.

Casa Del Mar Hotel

at Casa Del Mar Hotel

Followup

🎂 Colette’s Swiftie Birthday

Bye LEAF, Hello Niro

For the #IndieWeb ideals of independence from intermediaries, not requiring corporate platforms or other organizational intermediaries¹, the best systems we have still depend on organizations. However they are all swappable, at will, by the individual:

1. domain names, depend on registrars, which you can switch
2. web hosts, depend on hosting providers, which you can switch
3. internet access, depends on internet service providers, which you can switch
4. web browsing, depends on browsers, which you can switch
5. personal devices, that have choice of web browser and internet access, which you can switch, upgrade, and use multiples of simultaneously

When you can migrate from one provider to another, one device to another, without disruption, without breaking your people-to-people connections, the providers and devices serve you, instead of gatekeeping you.

This freedom to swap, freedom to choose, depends on practical #interoperability across multiple implementations, multiple services. Open standards are the means to encouraging, testing, and verifying this user-feature interoperability across implementations and services.

This is post 6 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

domain name
  https://indieweb.org/personal-domain
interoperability
  https://www.w3.org/wiki/Interoperable
web host
  https://indieweb.org/web_host

¹ https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
#IndieWeb #interoperability #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts
The #IndieWeb is for everyone, everyone who wants to be part of the world-wide-web of interconnected people. The social internet of people, a network of networks of people, connected peer-to-peer in human-scale groups, communities of locality and affinity.

These peer-to-peer links should not require corporate platforms or other organizational intermediaries, nor should they require depending on developer intermediaries, nor server administrator intermediaries.

This is the "indie" in IndieWeb, independence from intermediaries, not independence from people. Because the "web" in IndieWeb, is yes the Web of the World Wide Web, and it is also the Web of people.

The "indie" in IndieWeb is also the independent agency to opt-into human-scale groups, opt-into peer-to-peer connections, opt-into communities, opt-into publics. As the POSSE page says: “Figure out how you want to fit into the network”.

The "web" in IndieWeb is also an open acknowledgment and acceptance that regardless of what groups, connections, communities, and publics you opt-into, that they are all interconnected in a larger web, that even without connecting, you can accept and respect from a distance.

The IndieWeb is for everyone, everyone who wants independence from organizations, independence of agency to associate, and who embraces the web of humans that want to interconnect, to communicate, to value and respect each other, whether one degree apart or thirty.¹

This is post 5 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/023/t1/should-public-posts-flow-across-sites
https://tantek.com/2024/027/t1/indieweb-ideals-systems-swappable


Post glossary:

IndieWeb
  https://indieweb.org/
POSSE
  https://indieweb.org/POSSE
publics
  https://indieweb.org/publics


¹ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/aug/03/internet.email
#IndieWeb #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts

Car updates

Bronx Brewery
Five Pines Dental
New year new dentist

The Mac Turns 40, and My Love Affair Turns 23

@snarfed.org posted a great overview of thoughtful (and sometimes heated) discussions across blogs and the #fediverse about how freely should “public” posts & comments on the web flow across sites:

“Moderate people, not code” (https://snarfed.org/2024-01-21_moderate-people-not-code)

If you are designing or creating any kind of publishing or social features on the web, this post is for you.

It touches on topics ranging from #contextCollapse to #federation to #moderation and everything in between.

Does your choice of publishing tool set expectations about where your content might propagate, or whether it will be indexed by search engines? Should it?

Do the limitations of your server (e.g. js;dr) imply limitations of where your posts go, or whether they can be searched or archived? Should they?

When you post something publicly, are you truly posting it for a global audience for all time, or only for one or a few more limited #publics for an ephemerality?

When you reply to a post, do you expect your reply to only be visible in the context you posted it, or do you expect it to travel alongside that post to anywhere it might propagate to?


On the #IndieWeb, especially for public posts, some of these questions have easier and more obvious answers, because the intent of nearly all public IndieWeb posts is to interact across the web with other posts and sites, typically via the #Webmention protocol. However there are still questions.

Are the expectations for a blog and blogging different from a social media site, whether a silo or an instance on a network?

Is a personal website with posts still just a blog, or does it become something new when you start posting responses from your site, or receiving (e.g. via Webmention) and displaying responses from across the web to your posts on your site? Or is it now a “social website”?

If you have a social website, what is your responsibility for keeping it, well, social? Do you moderate Webmentions by default? Do you use the Vouch extension for some automatic moderation?

Are #POSSE & #backfeed different from federation or are they the same thing from a user-perspective, with merely different names hinting at different implementations?

Do you allow anyone from any site to respond or react to your posts? Or do you treat your social website like your home, and follow what I like to call a “house party protocol”, only letting in those you know, and perhaps allowing them to bring a +1 or 2?

I have many more questions. Each of these deserves thoughtful discussions, documentation of what different tools & services do today that we can try out, learn from, and use to make considered decisions when creating new things to post on and across websites.

This is post 4 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/022/t1/indiewebcamp-brighton-planned
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

backfeed
  https://indieweb.org/backfeed

blog
  https://indieweb.org/blog

blogging
  https://indieweb.org/blogging
 
comments
  https://indieweb.org/comments

context collapse
  https://indieweb.org/context_collapse

ephemerality
  https://indieweb.org/ephemerality

js;dr
  https://indieweb.org/js;dr

moderation
  https://indieweb.org/moderation

POSSE
  https://indieweb.org/POSSE

posts
  https://indieweb.org/posts

publics
  https://indieweb.org/publics

reply
  https://indieweb.org/reply

Vouch
  https://indieweb.org/Vouch
 
Webmention
  https://indieweb.org/Webmention
#fediverse #contextCollapse #federation #moderation #publics #IndieWeb #Webmention #POSSE #backfeed #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts