@edheil Because of the IndieWeb principle of plurality, you've got a tremendous amount of choice. Part of the issue is that there are SO MANY options and potential combinations of doing things.
What do you want the site to do? How much admin time to you want to spend on it? How flexible and modifiable do you want it to be? What skills do you have? What skills do you want to work on?
Both of the options you mention are excellent, though there's probably more immediate flexibility in WordPress with plugins. If you want something with no admin, but still some reasonable flexibility then micro.blog is a great way to go. (All three support a very broad range of all the IndieWeb building blocks. Of course, this doesn't even touch the custom-built or static site generator spaces which are also available options. And who's to say you should only have one site? ;)
This is a great question to ask in the IndieWeb Dev chat channel for advice from a bigger group of people with a tremendous wealth and diversity of building experience. https://chat.indieweb.org/dev
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"text": "@edheil Because of the IndieWeb principle of plurality, you've got a tremendous amount of choice. Part of the issue is that there are SO MANY options and potential combinations of doing things. \n\n\nWhat do you want the site to do? How much admin time to you want to spend on it? How flexible and modifiable do you want it to be? What skills do you have? What skills do you want to work on? \n\n\nBoth of the options you mention are excellent, though there's probably more immediate flexibility in WordPress with plugins. If you want something with no admin, but still some reasonable flexibility then micro.blog is a great way to go. (All three support a very broad range of all the IndieWeb building blocks. Of course, this doesn't even touch the custom-built or static site generator spaces which are also available options. And who's to say you should only have one site? ;) \n\n\nThis is a great question to ask in the IndieWeb Dev chat channel for advice from a bigger group of people with a tremendous wealth and diversity of building experience. https://chat.indieweb.org/dev",
"html": "<a href=\"https://twitter.com/edheil\">@edheil</a> Because of the IndieWeb principle of plurality, you've got a tremendous amount of choice. Part of the issue is that there are SO MANY options and potential combinations of doing things. <br /><br />\nWhat do you want the site to do? How much admin time to you want to spend on it? How flexible and modifiable do you want it to be? What skills do you have? What skills do you want to work on? <br /><br />\nBoth of the options you mention are excellent, though there's probably more immediate flexibility in WordPress with plugins. If you want something with no admin, but still some reasonable flexibility then micro.blog is a great way to go. (All three support a very broad range of all the IndieWeb building blocks. Of course, this doesn't even touch the custom-built or static site generator spaces which are also available options. And who's to say you should only have one site? ;) <br /><br />\nThis is a great question to ask in the IndieWeb Dev chat channel for advice from a bigger group of people with a tremendous wealth and diversity of building experience. <a href=\"https://chat.indieweb.org/dev\">https://chat.indieweb.org/dev</a>"
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@edheil It creates a 1 to 1 correspondence between the post on your site & your post on Twitter to make it easier for Bridgy to match and sending responses. It also makes it easier to delete copies in the future because you'll know where else on the web you've posted things.
Settings at /wp-admin/admin.php?page=syndication_links will let you set syndication targets so you can use a simple checkbox for cross posting. I particularly love that it dovetails with https://quill.p3k.io/ if you use that with Micropub for posting short notes to your website.
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"text": "@edheil It creates a 1 to 1 correspondence between the post on your site & your post on Twitter to make it easier for Bridgy to match and sending responses. It also makes it easier to delete copies in the future because you'll know where else on the web you've posted things. \n\n\nSettings at /wp-admin/admin.php?page=syndication_links will let you set syndication targets so you can use a simple checkbox for cross posting. I particularly love that it dovetails with https://quill.p3k.io/ if you use that with Micropub for posting short notes to your website.",
"html": "<a href=\"https://twitter.com/edheil\">@edheil</a> It creates a 1 to 1 correspondence between the post on your site & your post on Twitter to make it easier for Bridgy to match and sending responses. It also makes it easier to delete copies in the future because you'll know where else on the web you've posted things. <br /><br />\nSettings at /wp-admin/admin.php?page=syndication_links will let you set syndication targets so you can use a simple checkbox for cross posting. I particularly love that it dovetails with <a href=\"https://quill.p3k.io/\">https://quill.p3k.io/</a> if you use that with Micropub for posting short notes to your website.<br />"
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@edheil Bridgy matches posts on your site to Twitter using one of a few methods so that it can backfeed the proper replies to the appropriate posts. Providing it with syndication links is usually easiest, and on WordPress try: https://indieweb.org/u-syndication#How_to_link_from_WordPress
David Shanske's Syndication Links plugin also should have a checkbox set up (non-Gutenberg) for more easily syndicating to Twitter and other services if you like. There are many ways to publish to Brid.gy without visiting it for each. Using Shankse's plugin which sends it Webmentions is probably the easiest, though it may require proper markup in your theme. For the technical part see: https://brid.gy/about#publishing which explains in outline how it works.
I think many of the options are documented either here or on related pages: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
For other options and advice, it may be best/easiest to visit the IndieWeb WordPress chat at chat.indieweb.org/wordpress
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"text": "@edheil Bridgy matches posts on your site to Twitter using one of a few methods so that it can backfeed the proper replies to the appropriate posts. Providing it with syndication links is usually easiest, and on WordPress try: https://indieweb.org/u-syndication#How_to_link_from_WordPress\n\n\nDavid Shanske's Syndication Links plugin also should have a checkbox set up (non-Gutenberg) for more easily syndicating to Twitter and other services if you like. There are many ways to publish to Brid.gy without visiting it for each. Using Shankse's plugin which sends it Webmentions is probably the easiest, though it may require proper markup in your theme. For the technical part see: https://brid.gy/about#publishing which explains in outline how it works. \n\n\nI think many of the options are documented either here or on related pages: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress\n\n\nFor other options and advice, it may be best/easiest to visit the IndieWeb WordPress chat at chat.indieweb.org/wordpress",
"html": "<a href=\"https://twitter.com/edheil\">@edheil</a> Bridgy matches posts on your site to Twitter using one of a few methods so that it can backfeed the proper replies to the appropriate posts. Providing it with syndication links is usually easiest, and on WordPress try: <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/u-syndication#How_to_link_from_WordPress\">https://indieweb.org/u-syndication#How_to_link_from_WordPress</a><br /><br />\nDavid Shanske's Syndication Links plugin also should have a checkbox set up (non-Gutenberg) for more easily syndicating to Twitter and other services if you like. There are many ways to publish to Brid.gy without visiting it for each. Using Shankse's plugin which sends it Webmentions is probably the easiest, though it may require proper markup in your theme. For the technical part see: <a href=\"https://brid.gy/about#publishing\">https://brid.gy/about#publishing</a> which explains in outline how it works. <br /><br />\nI think many of the options are documented either here or on related pages: <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress\">https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress</a><br /><br />\nFor other options and advice, it may be best/easiest to visit the IndieWeb WordPress chat at chat.indieweb.org/wordpress"
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@edheil Which of the various methods (manually, plugin(s), other) are you using? On fragility front, I'm not too worried as it is open source and has folks helping. It's also only a bridge as I can reply directly to your site.
https://brid.gy/about#cost
https://indieweb.org/Bridgy#Statistics
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"text": "@edheil Which of the various methods (manually, plugin(s), other) are you using? On fragility front, I'm not too worried as it is open source and has folks helping. It's also only a bridge as I can reply directly to your site.\nhttps://brid.gy/about#cost\nhttps://indieweb.org/Bridgy#Statistics",
"html": "@edheil Which of the various methods (manually, plugin(s), other) are you using? On fragility front, I'm not too worried as it is open source and has folks helping. It's also only a bridge as I can reply directly to your site.<br /><a href=\"https://brid.gy/about#cost\">https://brid.gy/about#cost</a><br /><a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Bridgy#Statistics\">https://indieweb.org/Bridgy#Statistics</a>"
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Platforms come and go. Buy a domain and set up a permanent space on the web where others to find you and link back to. I have no idea what I put on Myspace back in the day, but everything I’ve published on this site since 2008 is still accessible and the links still work.
A personal website is a digital homestead that you can improve, tinker with, and live in for years to come. It is a home for your thoughts, musings, opinions, trials, and happenings, built in a way that suits you.
I like this little prompt:
What do you wish you had found via Google today but didn’t? Write that.
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"text": "Why blog? \u2013 Chuck Grimmett\n\n\n\n\n Platforms come and go. Buy a domain and set up a permanent space on the web where others to find you and link back to. I have no idea what I put on Myspace back in the day, but everything I\u2019ve published on this site since 2008 is still accessible and the links still work.\n \n A personal website is a digital homestead that you can improve, tinker with, and live in for years to come. It is a home for your thoughts, musings, opinions, trials, and happenings, built in a way that suits you.\n\n\nI like this little prompt:\n\n\n What do you wish you had found via Google today but didn\u2019t? Write that.",
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At Homebrew Website Club watching with great anticipation as @KevinMarks adds microformats to the base Tumblr theme to help make it more IndieWeb friendly. #RedCups #Flickr
https://events.indieweb.org/2022/05/monthly-guiding-compass-homebrew-website-club-nS6KBMwoZDFm
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"text": "At Homebrew Website Club watching with great anticipation as @KevinMarks adds microformats to the base Tumblr theme to help make it more IndieWeb friendly. #RedCups #Flickr\nhttps://events.indieweb.org/2022/05/monthly-guiding-compass-homebrew-website-club-nS6KBMwoZDFm",
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"text": "@ChengduLittleA You're not doing them all manually like this are you? https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention \ud83d\ude39",
"html": "<a href=\"https://twitter.com/ChengduLittleA\">@ChengduLittleA</a> You're not doing them all manually like this are you? <a href=\"https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention\">https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention</a> \ud83d\ude39"
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@omgmog@indieweb.social Glad to see others using Known and using it to syndicate to Mastodon!
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How to Live the IndieWeb Dream boffosocko.com
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{
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"url": "https://adactio.com/journal/19043",
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"text": "A while back I wrote a blog post called Web Audio API weirdness on iOS. I described a bug in Mobile Safari along with a hacky fix. I finished by saying:\n\n\n If you ever find yourself getting weird but inconsistent behaviour on iOS using the Web Audio API, this nasty little hack could help.\n\n\nRecently Jonathan Aldrich posted a thread about the same bug. He included a link to my blog post. He also said:\n\n\n Thanks so much for your post, this was a truly pernicious problem!\n\n\nThat warms the cockles of my heart. It\u2019s very gratifying to know that documenting the bug (and the fix) helped someone out. Or, as I put it:\n\n\n Yay for bugblogging!\n\n\nForgive the Germanic compound word, but in this case I think it fits.\n\nBugblogging doesn\u2019t need to involve a solution. Just documenting a bug is a good thing to do. Recently I documented a bug with progressive web apps on iOS. Before that I documented a bug in Facebook Container for Firefox. When I documented some weird behaviour with the Web Share API in Safari on iOS, I wasn\u2019t even sure it was a bug but Tess was pretty sure it was and filed a proper bug report.\n\nI\u2019ve benefited from other people bugblogging. Phil Nash wrote Service workers: beware Safari\u2019s range request. That was exactly what I needed to solve a problem I\u2019d been having. And then that post about Phil solving my problem helped Peter Rukavina solve a similar issue so he wrote Phil Nash and Jeremy Keith Save the Safari Video Playback Day.\n\nAgain, this warmed the cockles of my heart. Bugblogging is worth doing just for the reward of that feeling.\n\nThere\u2019s a similar kind of blog post where, instead of writing about a bug, you write about a particular technique. In one way, this is the opposite of bugblogging because you\u2019re writing about things working exactly as they should. But these posts have a similar feeling to bugblogging because they also result in a warm glow when someone finds them useful.\n\nHere are some recent examples of these kinds of posts\u2014tipblogging?\u2014that I\u2019ve found useful:\n\nEric wrote about flexibly centering an element with side-sligned content using CSS.\nRich documented how to subset a variable font on a Mac.\nStephanie wrote about a CSS technique for animating in a newly added element.\nAll three are very handy tips. Thanks, Eric! Thanks, Rich! Thanks, Stephanie!",
"html": "<p>A while back I wrote a blog post called <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/17709\">Web Audio API weirdness on iOS</a>. I described a bug in Mobile Safari along with a hacky fix. I finished by saying:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>If you ever find yourself getting weird but inconsistent behaviour on iOS using the Web Audio API, this nasty little hack could help.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Recently <a href=\"https://twitter.com/JAldrichPL/status/1517005793958236160\">Jonathan Aldrich posted a thread</a> about the same bug. He included <a href=\"https://twitter.com/JAldrichPL/status/1517005797447847936\">a link to my blog post</a>. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/JAldrichPL/status/1517101239749722112\">He also said</a>:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>Thanks so much for your post, this was a truly pernicious problem!</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>That warms the cockles of my heart. It\u2019s very gratifying to know that documenting the bug (and the fix) helped someone out. Or, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/adactio/status/1517040088592519168\">as I put it</a>:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>Yay for bugblogging!</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Forgive the Germanic compound word, but in this case I think it fits.</p>\n\n<p>Bugblogging doesn\u2019t need to involve a solution. Just documenting a bug is a good thing to do. Recently I documented <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/18897\">a bug with progressive web apps on iOS</a>. Before that <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/18328\">I documented a bug in Facebook Container for Firefox</a>. When I documented some weird behaviour with <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/15972\">the Web Share API in Safari on iOS</a>, I wasn\u2019t even sure it was a bug but Tess was pretty sure it was and <a href=\"https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=203221\">filed a proper bug report</a>.</p>\n\n<p>I\u2019ve benefited from other people bugblogging. Phil Nash wrote <a href=\"https://philna.sh/blog/2018/10/23/service-workers-beware-safaris-range-request/\">Service workers: beware Safari\u2019s range request</a>. That was <em>exactly</em> what I needed to solve <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/14452\">a problem I\u2019d been having</a>. And then that post about Phil solving my problem helped Peter Rukavina solve a similar issue so he wrote <a href=\"https://ruk.ca/content/phil-nash-and-jeremy-keith-save-safari-video-playback-day\">Phil Nash and Jeremy Keith Save the Safari Video Playback Day</a>.</p>\n\n<p>Again, this warmed the cockles of my heart. Bugblogging is worth doing just for the reward of that feeling.</p>\n\n<p>There\u2019s a similar kind of blog post where, instead of writing about a bug, you write about a particular technique. In one way, this is the opposite of bugblogging because you\u2019re writing about things working exactly as they should. But these posts have a similar feeling to bugblogging because they also result in a warm glow when someone finds them useful.</p>\n\n<p>Here are some recent examples of these kinds of posts\u2014tipblogging?\u2014that I\u2019ve found useful:</p>\n\n<ul><li>Eric wrote about <a href=\"https://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2022/04/26/flexibly-centering-an-element-with-side-aligned-content/\">flexibly centering an element with side-sligned content</a> using CSS.</li>\n<li>Rich documented <a href=\"https://clagnut.com/blog/2418/\">how to subset a variable font</a> on a Mac.</li>\n<li>Stephanie wrote about a CSS technique for <a href=\"https://thinkdobecreate.com/articles/css-animating-newly-added-element/\">animating in a newly added element</a>.</li>\n</ul><p>All three are very handy tips. Thanks, <a href=\"https://meyerweb.com/\">Eric</a>! Thanks, <a href=\"https://clagnut.com/\">Rich</a>! Thanks, <a href=\"https://thinkdobecreate.com\">Stephanie</a>!</p>"
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So I’m trying to do the IndieWeb thing, hence this blog. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, but we shall see.
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"html": "<p>So I\u2019m trying to do the <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/\">IndieWeb</a> thing, hence this blog. I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing yet, but we shall see.</p>",
"text": "So I\u2019m trying to do the IndieWeb thing, hence this blog. I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing yet, but we shall see."
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@IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf is a wrap!
For Create Day, I added code to my publishing system to only syndicate (POSSE) a reply post to Twitter if it actually has an @-name, otherwise if it’s a peer-to-peer reply, just directly send them a Webmention.
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"text": "@IndieWebCamp D\u00fcsseldorf is a wrap!\n\nFor Create Day, I added code to my publishing system to only syndicate (POSSE) a reply post to Twitter if it actually has an @-name, otherwise if it\u2019s a peer-to-peer reply, just directly send them a Webmention.",
"html": "<a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/IndieWebCamp\">@IndieWebCamp</a> D\u00fcsseldorf is a wrap!<br /><br />For Create Day, I added code to my publishing system to only syndicate (POSSE) a reply post to Twitter if it actually has an @-name, otherwise if it\u2019s a peer-to-peer reply, just directly send them a Webmention."
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IndieWebCamp Create Day participants looking eager to create!
Inspirational quote on https://indieweb.org/creator to get us started:
“When you don’t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than your ability. Your tastes only narrow & exclude people. So create.” — Why The Lucky Stiff
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"text": "IndieWebCamp Create Day participants looking eager to create! \n\nInspirational quote on https://indieweb.org/creator to get us started:\n\n\u00a0\u201cWhen you don\u2019t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than your ability. Your tastes only narrow & exclude people. So create.\u201d \u2014 Why The Lucky Stiff",
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Nice photo of day 1 IndieWebCamp participants!
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"text": "Nice photo of day 1 IndieWebCamp participants!"
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RSS is kind of an invisible technology. People call RSS dead because you can’t see it. There’s no feed, no login, no analytics. RSS feels subsurface.
But I believe we’re living in a golden age of RSS. Blogging is booming. My feed reader has 280 feeds in it.
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How is all this social? It’s just slow social. If you want to respond to me, publish something linking to what I said. If I want to respond to you, I publish something linking to what you wrote. Old school. Good school. It’s high-effort, but I think the required effort is a positive thing for a social network. Forces you to think more.
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"text": "RSS - Chris Coyier\n\n\n\n\n How is all this social? It\u2019s just slow social. If you want to respond to me, publish something linking to what I said. If I want to respond to you, I publish something linking to what you wrote. Old school. Good school. It\u2019s high-effort, but I think the required effort is a positive thing for a social network. Forces you to think more.",
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"name": "How to fix a problem with Gregwar/Image",
"content": {
"text": "There is an IndieWebCamp going on in Dusseldorf, and during a session on the presentation of photos I thought about sharing my own efforts in that department. Then I discovered, to my horror, that search was completely broken on the website, in production and locally, where I tinker with things. Obv...",
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"author": {
"type": "card",
"name": "Jeremy Cherfas",
"url": "https://jeremycherfas.net",
"photo": "https://www.jeremycherfas.net/user/themes/tailwind/images/zoot.jpg"
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"text": "co-organizing @IndieWebCamp D\u00fcsseldorf this weekend with @marcthiele @calum_ryan @jkphl!\n\ud83d\uddd3 2022-04-30\u202605-01\n\ud83d\udccd @cgi_global\n\ud83c\udf9f https://btco.nf/iwcdus22\n\u2139\ufe0f https://indieweb.org/2022/DUS\n\nAlso excited for the @btconf main event! https://twitter.com/btconf/status/1519910629561319424",
"html": "co-organizing <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/IndieWebCamp\">@IndieWebCamp</a> D\u00fcsseldorf this weekend with <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/marcthiele\">@marcthiele</a> <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/calum_ryan\">@calum_ryan</a> <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/jkphl\">@jkphl</a>!<br />\ud83d\uddd3 2022-04-30\u202605-01<br />\ud83d\udccd <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/cgi_global\">@cgi_global</a><br />\ud83c\udf9f <a href=\"https://btco.nf/iwcdus22\">https://btco.nf/iwcdus22</a><br />\u2139\ufe0f <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/2022/DUS\">https://indieweb.org/2022/DUS</a><br /><br />Also excited for the <a class=\"h-cassis-username\" href=\"https://twitter.com/btconf\">@btconf</a> main event! <a href=\"https://twitter.com/btconf/status/1519910629561319424\">https://twitter.com/btconf/status/1519910629561319424</a>"
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@u_map_prop @olynch@mathstodon.xyz I remember a few years back trying to talk @johncarlosbaez into supporting this sort of syndication and webmentions on his site when he was irked at Google+ shutting down. Glad to see more people getting it working.
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"text": "@u_map_prop @olynch@mathstodon.xyz I remember a few years back trying to talk @johncarlosbaez into supporting this sort of syndication and webmentions on his site when he was irked at Google+ shutting down. Glad to see more people getting it working."
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{
"type": "entry",
"published": "2022-04-28T11:33:43Z",
"url": "https://adactio.com/journal/19029",
"category": [
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"text": "I\u2019ve already had some thoughtful responses to yesterday\u2019s post about trust. I wrapped up my thoughts with a request:\n\n\n I would love it if someone could explain why they\u2019re avoid native browser features but use third-party code.\n\n\nChris obliged:\n\n\n I can\u2019t speak for the industry, but I have a guess. Third-party code (like the referenced Bootstrap and React) have a history of smoothing over significant cross-browser issues and providing better-than-browser ergonomic APIs. jQuery was created to smooth over cross-browser JavaScript problems. That\u2019s trust.\n\n\nVery true! jQuery is the canonical example of a library smoothing over the bumpy landscape of browser compatibilities. But jQuery is also the canonical example of a library we no longer need because the browsers have caught up \u2026and those browsers support standards directly influenced by jQuery. That\u2019s a library success story!\n\nCharles Harries takes on my question in his post Libraries over browser features:\n\n\n I think this perspective of trust has been hammered into developers over the past maybe like 5 years of JavaScript development based almost exclusively on inequality of browser feature support. Things are looking good in 2022; but as recently as 2019, 4 of the 5 top web developer needs had to do with browser compatibility.\n \n Browser compatibility is one of the underlying promises that libraries\u2014especially the big ones that Jeremy references, like React and Bootstrap\u2014make to developers.\n\n\nSo again, it\u2019s browser incompatibilities that made libraries attractive.\n\nJim Nielsen responds with the same message in his post Trusting Browsers:\n\n\n We distrust the browser because we\u2019ve been trained to. Years of fighting browser deficiencies where libraries filled the gaps. Browser enemy; library friend.\n \n For example: jQuery did wonders to normalize working across browsers. Write code once, run it in any browser \u2014 confidently.\n\n\nThree for three. My question has been answered: people gravitated towards libraries because browsers had inconsistent implementations.\n\nI\u2019m deliberately using the past tense there. I think Jim is onto something when he says that we\u2019ve been trained not to trust browsers to have parity when it comes to supporting standards. But that has changed.\n\nCharles again:\n\n\n This approach isn\u2019t a sustainable practice, and I\u2019m trying to do as little of it as I can. Jeremy is right to be suspicious of third-party code. Cross-browser compatibility has gotten a lot better, and campaigns like Interop 2022 are doing a lot to reduce the burden. It\u2019s getting better, but the exasperated I-just-want-it-to-work mindset is tough to uninstall.\n\n\nI agree. Inertia is a powerful force. No matter how good cross-browser compatibility gets, it\u2019s going to take a long time for developers to shed their suspicion.\n\nJim is glass-half-full kind of guy:\n\n\n I\u2019m optimistic that trust in browser-native features and APIs is being restored.\n\n\nHe also points to a very sensible mindset when it comes to third-party libraries and frameworks:\n\n\n In this sense, third-party code and abstractions can be wonderful polyfills for the web platform. The idea being that the default posture should be: leverage as much of the web platform as possible, then where there are gaps to creating great user experiences, fill them in with exploratory library or framework features (features which, conceivably, could one day become native in browsers).\n\n\nYes! A kind of progressive enhancement approach to using third-party code makes a lot of sense. I\u2019ve always maintained that you should treat libraries and frameworks like cattle, not pets. Don\u2019t get too attached. If the library is solving a genuine need, it will be replaced by stable web standards in browsers (again, see jQuery).\n\nI think that third-party libraries and frameworks work best as polyfills. But the whole point of polyfills is that you only use them when the browsers don\u2019t supply features natively (and you also go back and remove the polyfill later when browsers do support the feature). But that\u2019s not how people are using libraries and frameworks today. Developers are reaching for them by default instead of treating them as a last resort.\n\nI like Jim\u2019s proposed design princple:\n\n\n Where available, default to browser-native features over third party code, abstractions, or idioms.\n\n\n(P.S. It\u2019s kind of lovely to see this kind of thoughtful blog-to-blog conversation happening. Right at a time when Twitter is about to go down the tubes, this is a demonstration of an actual public square with more nuanced discussion. Make your own website and join the conversation!)",
"html": "<p>I\u2019ve already had some thoughtful responses to yesterday\u2019s post about <a href=\"https://adactio.com/journal/19021\">trust</a>. I wrapped up my thoughts with a request:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>I would love it if someone could explain why they\u2019re avoid native browser features but use third-party code.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https://chriscoyier.net/2022/04/27/trust/\">Chris obliged</a>:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>I can\u2019t speak for the industry, but I have a guess. Third-party code (like the referenced Bootstrap and React) have a history of smoothing over significant cross-browser issues and providing better-than-browser ergonomic APIs. jQuery was created to smooth over cross-browser JavaScript problems. That\u2019s trust.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Very true! jQuery is the canonical example of a library smoothing over the bumpy landscape of browser compatibilities. But jQuery is also the canonical example of a library we no longer need because the browsers have caught up \u2026and those browsers support standards directly influenced by jQuery. That\u2019s a library success story!</p>\n\n<p>Charles Harries takes on my question in his post <a href=\"https://charlesharri.es/stream/libraries-over-browser-features\">Libraries over browser features</a>:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>I think this perspective of trust has been hammered into developers over the past maybe like 5 years of JavaScript development based almost exclusively on inequality of browser feature support. Things are looking good in 2022; but as recently as 2019, <a href=\"https://insights.developer.mozilla.org/reports/mdn-web-developer-needs-assessment-2019.html#needs-assessment-overall-needs-ranking\">4 of the 5 top web developer needs</a> had to do with browser compatibility.</p>\n \n <p>Browser compatibility is one of the underlying promises that libraries\u2014especially the big ones that Jeremy references, like React and Bootstrap\u2014make to developers.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>So again, it\u2019s browser incompatibilities that made libraries attractive.</p>\n\n<p>Jim Nielsen responds with the same message in his post <a href=\"https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/trusting-browsers/\">Trusting Browsers</a>:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>We distrust the browser because we\u2019ve been trained to. Years of fighting browser deficiencies where libraries filled the gaps. Browser enemy; library friend.</p>\n \n <p>For example: jQuery did wonders to normalize working across browsers. Write code once, run it in any browser \u2014 confidently.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Three for three. My question has been answered: people gravitated towards libraries because browsers had inconsistent implementations.</p>\n\n<p>I\u2019m deliberately using the past tense there. I think Jim is onto something when he says that we\u2019ve been trained not to trust browsers to have parity when it comes to supporting standards. But that has changed.</p>\n\n<p>Charles again:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>This approach isn\u2019t a sustainable practice, and I\u2019m trying to do as little of it as I can. Jeremy is right to be suspicious of third-party code. Cross-browser compatibility has gotten a lot better, and campaigns like <a href=\"https://web.dev/interop-2022/\">Interop 2022</a> are doing <em>a lot</em> to reduce the burden. It\u2019s getting better, but the exasperated I-just-want-it-to-work mindset is tough to uninstall.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>I agree. Inertia is a powerful force. No matter how good cross-browser compatibility gets, it\u2019s going to take a long time for developers to shed their suspicion.</p>\n\n<p>Jim is glass-half-full kind of guy:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>I\u2019m optimistic that trust in browser-native features and APIs is being restored.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>He also points to a very sensible mindset when it comes to third-party libraries and frameworks:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>In this sense, third-party code and abstractions can be wonderful polyfills for the web platform. The idea being that the default posture should be: leverage as much of the web platform as possible, then where there are gaps to creating great user experiences, fill them in with exploratory library or framework features (features which, conceivably, could one day become native in browsers).</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Yes! A kind of progressive enhancement approach to using third-party code makes a lot of sense. I\u2019ve always maintained that you should treat libraries and frameworks like cattle, not pets. Don\u2019t get too attached. If the library is solving a genuine need, it will be replaced by stable web standards in browsers (again, see jQuery).</p>\n\n<p>I think that third-party libraries and frameworks work best as polyfills. But the whole point of polyfills is that you only use them when the browsers don\u2019t supply features natively (and you also go back and remove the polyfill later when browsers <em>do</em> support the feature). But that\u2019s not how people are using libraries and frameworks today. Developers are reaching for them by default instead of treating them as a last resort.</p>\n\n<p>I like Jim\u2019s proposed design princple:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n <p>Where available, default to browser-native features over third party code, abstractions, or idioms.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>(P.S. It\u2019s kind of lovely to see this kind of thoughtful blog-to-blog conversation happening. Right at a time when Twitter is about to go down the tubes, this is a demonstration of an <em>actual</em> public square with more nuanced discussion. Make your own website and join the conversation!)</p>"
},
"author": {
"type": "card",
"name": "Jeremy Keith",
"url": "https://adactio.com/",
"photo": "https://adactio.com/images/photo-150.jpg"
},
"post-type": "article",
"_id": "28750869",
"_source": "2",
"_is_read": true
}