Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.

Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.

Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.

Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.


The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single #indiewebcamp IRC channel (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.

It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.

As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.

The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.

Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue a thread in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. There was also a need for regular community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.


We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge them to the development channel.

Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.

We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.

Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.

It takes a village: eternal community vigilance is the price of staying user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.

The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰


This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

development channel (indieweb-dev)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
Discord
  https://indieweb.org/Discord
format
  https://indieweb.org/format
Hacker News (HN)
  https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
IndieWeb
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
IRC
  https://indieweb.org/IRC
jargon
  https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
  https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
Matrix
  https://indieweb.org/Matrix
meta chat channel
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
  https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
  https://indieweb.org/protocol
Reddit
  https://indieweb.org/Reddit
tools
  https://indieweb.org/tools
Slack
  https://indieweb.org/Slack
social media silos
  https://indieweb.org/silos


¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html (2008 essay, HN still succumbed to trolling)
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/jargon
https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800
Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.

Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.

Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.

Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.


The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single #indiewebcamp IRC channel (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.

It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.

As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.

The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.

Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue a thread in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. There was also a need for regular community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.


We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge them to the development channel.

Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.

We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.

Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.

It takes a village: eternal community vigilance is the price of staying user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.

The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰


This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts

https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮


Post glossary:

development channel (indieweb-dev)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
Discord
  https://indieweb.org/Discord
format
  https://indieweb.org/format
Hacker News (HN)
  https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
IndieWeb
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
  https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
IRC
  https://indieweb.org/IRC
jargon
  https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
  https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
Matrix
  https://indieweb.org/Matrix
meta chat channel
  https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
  https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
  https://indieweb.org/protocol
Reddit
  https://indieweb.org/Reddit
tools
  https://indieweb.org/tools
Slack
  https://indieweb.org/Slack
social media silos
  https://indieweb.org/silos


¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html (2008 essay, HN still succumbed to trolling)
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/jargon
https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800
#Matrix #Slack #Discord #HackerNews #jargon #IndieWeb #indiewebcamp #indieweb-dev #indieweb #100PostsOfIndieWeb #100Posts

New blog post!

How I Got Started In Tech - Cool As Heck

https://cool-as-heck.blog/posts/how-i-got-started-in-tech

#indieweb

I'm finding myself way overthinking this month's #IndieWeb Carnival post. I love the topic and I have now written two versions of my blog post but for some reason, it doesn't feel good. The post just doesn't flow in a way I want it to flow.

I'm being way more critical about it than any of my regular blog posts for some reason.

#blogging #writing

(IndieWeb Carnival is a monthly blogging thing, see https://indieweb.org/indieweb-carnival for general info and https://manuelmoreale.com/indieweb-carnival-digital-relationships for this month's theme)

ICYMI: Mechanical watches and Apple Watch-es, WordPress and HTML & CSS (and a bit of #indieweb to spruce it up) all featured in my newest blog post:

https://lars-christian.com/craftsmanship-and-compulsion/

It's the latest outcome of my newly formed daily writing habit. The morning I wrote the first half of this was, by far, my best writing experience so far.

I have this idea banging around in my head of an IndieWeb search engine, combined with a Fraidycat-style website feed/update tracker (that links directly to the site/post, not to a reader view), combined with a webring-style persistent navigation keeping it all together and I need someone to either help me make it or tell me I'm crazy. Maybe both. #Design #IndieWeb

Making good progress the last couple days going through and organizing links. I threw a bunch on a spreadsheet and have been sorting and filtering. My wife has really helped with some great ideas along the way. (she's GENIUS with data stuff).

Sorting links is tedious and time consuming but it's something I've needed to do for a long time. It was also something I needed to do BEFORE I finish writing the couple blog posts I'm in the middle of - great to dig up some of this stuff for resources.

Lots of great indie web stuff, etc. 🔥

#IndieWeb #WebDev #WeirdWeb

This is a post in which the author describes the steps he took to make his JamStack configuration blog Fediverse compliant.
Bridgy Fed is used, plus the Webmention display is implemented.
JA: https://blog.tyage.net/post/2023/2023-07-17-bridgy-fed/
#indieweb

The four phases

Via #IndieWeb chat.

Apparently all mastodons (prior to one of the 3.x) are vulnerable.

Happy hosting
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/security/advisories/GHSA-3fjr-858r-92rw

How to delete your Instagram account

This step-by step guide will help you deactivate or delete your Instagram account through the mobile app or a web browser.

https://www.engadget.com/how-to-delete-your-instagram-account-130017501.html

#technology #tech #web #socialmedia #meta #instagram #indieweb #smallweb #fediverse

The indieweb is for everyone
https://werd.io/2024/the-indieweb-is-for-everyone
A nice booster piece, outlining some history I didn't know of, and ending with a sentiment I share: I'm glad you exist #indieweb

New on #WellMadeWeb: Graphite Galaxy.

The web presence of a devoted amateur astronomer from Hungary. He has been searching the heavens for the furthest celestial bodies, pushing the limits of optics to deliver them to his website.

See more: https://wmw.thran.uk/dowdy/index.html#graphiteg

#oldweb #webdiscovery #indieweb

#openWeb and #indieweb is a great source of wisdom, the line between books and web are blurring, and it will get more interesting as time goes.

Welp, looks like I can remove this blog platform as a resource for #IndieWeb folks. Make no mistake, he has not mentioned anything about infusing AI into the platform, but I know these people just can’t help themselves. Even though he hasn’t said anything yet, I predict that it’s gonna start off with just a little experiment bro, and then it’s going to blossom into a feature! eventually there’s two main things that trouble me about this. It’s not the fact they’re using chat robots as a way to aid tutoring, it’s the fact that he actively caused them AI instead of what they actually are. Also, this line in particular made me especially roll my eyes!

> I don't believe in AI's ability to feel (yet). However, it's the spirit of the thing that bothered me, and it obviously wasn't good from a learning standpoint. Screenshot

AI tutoring; what works? https://herman.bearblog.dev/ai-tutoring-what-works/ #AI #SmallWeb