More on why you should have a website
A website, or anything interactive, is inherently unfinished. It’s imperfect—maybe sometimes it even has a few bugs. But that’s the beauty of it. Websites are living, temporal spaces. What happens to websites after death, anyway? What are you waiting for? …
https://lars-christian.com/notes/4d9a3ed8c3/
#indieweb #PersonalWebsites
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"html": "<p>More on why you should have a website</p><p>A website, or anything interactive, is inherently unfinished. It\u2019s imperfect\u2014maybe sometimes it even has a few bugs. But that\u2019s the beauty of it. Websites are living, temporal spaces. What happens to websites after death, anyway? What are you waiting for? \u2026 </p><p><a href=\"https://lars-christian.com/notes/4d9a3ed8c3/\"><span>https://</span><span>lars-christian.com/notes/4d9a3</span><span>ed8c3/</span></a><br /><a href=\"https://mastodon.social/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a> <a href=\"https://mastodon.social/tags/PersonalWebsites\">#<span>PersonalWebsites</span></a></p>",
"text": "More on why you should have a website\n\nA website, or anything interactive, is inherently unfinished. It\u2019s imperfect\u2014maybe sometimes it even has a few bugs. But that\u2019s the beauty of it. Websites are living, temporal spaces. What happens to websites after death, anyway? What are you waiting for? \u2026 \n\nhttps://lars-christian.com/notes/4d9a3ed8c3/\n#indieweb #PersonalWebsites"
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"html": "<p>Making Websites Should Be Easy<br /><a href=\"https://flamedfury.com/posts/making-websites-should-be-easy/\"><span>https://</span><span>flamedfury.com/posts/making-we</span><span>bsites-should-be-easy/</span></a><br /><a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a></p>",
"text": "Making Websites Should Be Easy\nhttps://flamedfury.com/posts/making-websites-should-be-easy/\n#indieweb"
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@tantek.com A good read, thank you!
One change I’ve been making myself over the past few years in this vein is to switch, as much as possible, to serving statically built sites using JS only as progressive enhancement, and serving them over #IPFS.
IPFS means anyone else can play a part in storing and serving my sites for as long or as little as they want, and I can (and do!) offer to “pin” other #IndieWeb sites on my #homelab 😊 https://byjp.fyi/indieweb-ipfs
Maybe this helps a little!
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"html": "<p><span class=\"h-card\"><a class=\"u-url\" href=\"https://fed.brid.gy/r/https://tantek.com/\">@<span>tantek.com</span></a></span> A good read, thank you!</p><p>One change I\u2019ve been making myself over the past few years in this vein is to switch, as much as possible, to serving statically built sites using JS only as progressive enhancement, and serving them over <a href=\"https://hachyderm.io/tags/IPFS\">#<span>IPFS</span></a>.</p><p>IPFS means anyone else can play a part in storing and serving my sites for as long or as little as they want, and I can (and do!) offer to \u201cpin\u201d other <a href=\"https://hachyderm.io/tags/IndieWeb\">#<span>IndieWeb</span></a> sites on my <a href=\"https://hachyderm.io/tags/homelab\">#<span>homelab</span></a> \ud83d\ude0a <a href=\"https://byjp.fyi/indieweb-ipfs\"><span>https://</span><span>byjp.fyi/indieweb-ipfs</span><span></span></a></p><p>Maybe this helps a little!</p>\n<a class=\"u-mention\" href=\"https://fed.brid.gy/r/https://tantek.com/\"></a>",
"text": "@tantek.com A good read, thank you!\n\nOne change I\u2019ve been making myself over the past few years in this vein is to switch, as much as possible, to serving statically built sites using JS only as progressive enhancement, and serving them over #IPFS.\n\nIPFS means anyone else can play a part in storing and serving my sites for as long or as little as they want, and I can (and do!) offer to \u201cpin\u201d other #IndieWeb sites on my #homelab \ud83d\ude0a https://byjp.fyi/indieweb-ipfs\n\nMaybe this helps a little!"
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New this week: the #IndieWeb community deployed a major modern update to the design, usability, and cross-device support of the https://indieweb.org/ home page and wiki in general! In brief:
* Updated MediaWiki install, updated themes, better mobile device support
* New default theme: Vector (2022), the same as English Wikipedia
* Lots of CSS fixes for content, sidebars, etc.
* Home page content simplification and more pleasing design update
Lots more details on the 2024 homepage and design update project page:
* https://indieweb.org/2024/homepage
This was a community effort, with many people pitching in with major & minor contributions, spending weeks, days, hours, or a few minutes here and there helping out. From server work, to PHP coding, to HTML+CSS (re)coding, to testing variants of MediaWiki themes, browsers, and devices.
Huge thanks in particular to @PaulRobertLloyd.com (@paulrobertlloyd@mastodon.social) for both driving this design update (e.g. said project page) and doing the heavy lifting of debugging, patching, and testing the latest MediaWiki Vector theme, documenting before & after screenshots, and @AaronParecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com @aaronpk) for all the server-side software updates, PHP/IndieAuth wrangling, and critical devops too.
Go try the new https://indieweb.org/ on any browser, on any device, and share your experience!
#IndieNews
This is post 11 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web
→ 🔮
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📝 Making Websites Should Be Easy
First post in a while... This one summarises a conversation @sarajw and I had last month about the barrier to making websites if you're not a developer...
🔥 https://flamedfury.com/posts/making-websites-shoud-be-easy/
#SmallWeb #OpenWeb #IndieWeb #WebDev
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"html": "<p>\ud83d\udcdd Making Websites Should Be Easy</p><p>First post in a while... This one summarises a conversation <span class=\"h-card\"><a class=\"u-url\" href=\"https://front-end.social/@sarajw\">@<span>sarajw</span></a></span> and I had last month about the barrier to making websites if you're not a developer...</p><p>\ud83d\udd25 <a href=\"https://flamedfury.com/posts/making-websites-shoud-be-easy/\"><span>https://</span><span>flamedfury.com/posts/making-we</span><span>bsites-shoud-be-easy/</span></a></p><p><a href=\"https://social.lol/tags/SmallWeb\">#<span>SmallWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://social.lol/tags/OpenWeb\">#<span>OpenWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://social.lol/tags/IndieWeb\">#<span>IndieWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://social.lol/tags/WebDev\">#<span>WebDev</span></a></p>\n<a class=\"u-mention\" href=\"https://front-end.social/@sarajw\"></a>",
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2023 Blogging Project Recap
In 2023, I attempted to write 100 posts of at least 100 words, inspired by some other blogging projects I saw promoted as part of the IndieWeb revival.
Unsurprisingly, I fell a little short. It’s unsurprising because there were some summer months where I really stepped away from this blog and only got maybe one entry in per month. Then there were weeks […]
#2024 #AtLeast100 #blog #indieweb
https://novakeith.net/2024/02/16/2023-blogging-project-recap/
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"text": "2023 Blogging Project Recap\n\nIn 2023, I attempted to write 100 posts of at least 100 words, inspired by some other blogging projects I saw promoted as part of the IndieWeb revival. \n\nUnsurprisingly, I fell a little short. It\u2019s unsurprising because there were some summer months where I really stepped away from this blog and only got maybe one entry in per month. Then there were weeks [\u2026]\n\n#2024 #AtLeast100 #blog #indieweb\n\nhttps://novakeith.net/2024/02/16/2023-blogging-project-recap/"
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New this week: the #IndieWeb community deployed a major modern update to the design, usability, and cross-device support of the https://indieweb.org/ home page and wiki in general! In brief:* Updated MediaWiki install, updated themes, better mobile device support* New default theme: Vector (2022), the same... tantek.com
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New this week: the #IndieWeb community deployed a major modern update to the design, usability, and cross-device support of the https://indieweb.org/ home page and wiki in general! In brief:
* Updated MediaWiki install, updated themes, better mobile device support
* New default theme: Vector (2022), the same as English Wikipedia
* Lots of CSS fixes for content, sidebars, etc.
* Home page content simplification and more pleasing design update
Lots more details on the 2024 homepage and design update project page:
* https://indieweb.org/2024/homepage
This was a community effort, with many people pitching in with major & minor contributions, spending weeks, days, hours, or a few minutes here and there helping out. From server work, to PHP coding, to HTML+CSS (re)coding, to testing variants of MediaWiki themes, browsers, and devices.
Huge thanks in particular to @PaulRobertLloyd.com for both driving this design update (e.g. said project page) and doing the heavy lifting of debugging, patching, and testing the latest MediaWiki Vector theme, documenting before & after screenshots, and @AaronParecki.com for all the server-side software updates, PHP/IndieAuth wrangling, and critical devops too.
Go try the new https://indieweb.org/ on any browser, on any device, and share your experience!
#IndieNews
This is post 11 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web
→ 🔮
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an #introduction for the alt account
feel free to call me fami, justin, onemuri; whatever you see fit
i use it/its pronouns (masc pronouns outside of english) and i am a lot of queer mixed with disability
this is my alt account in case my main goes down for any reasons (i'm one of the wavebird.party admins!) -- hence why the intro is also mostly copied, because i suck at intros but feel free to ask me stuff
i am one of the 3 owners of a wii and one of 10 owners of a 3ds on fedi. hit me up if you want some mario kart or smash bros tho :yeah:
i also do art and try to rewrite my website as i no longer like the way it looks. AI/techbros/fossbros DNI i hate you with every fiber of my being.
if youre looking to follow a fellow disabled transmasc-revolving fella who games and draws, or youre into similar things, feel free to follow (unless you are under 18 or post content illegal in my jurisdiction)
fun fact: i love bananas and mangos
also plushie collectors pls interact i also collect plushies, here are my plushies (and other toys) below
#gaming #VideoGames #wii #3ds #disabled #ActuallyAutistic #IndieWeb #pokemon #plushie #art #DigitalArt #ArtistsOnMastodon #furry #webmaster #queer #transmasc #transgender #salmacian #LGBTQ #BoostMe
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"html": "<p>an <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/introduction\">#<span>introduction</span></a> for the alt account</p><p>feel free to call me fami, justin, onemuri; whatever you see fit<br />i use it/its pronouns (masc pronouns outside of english) and i am a lot of queer mixed with disability</p><p>this is my alt account in case my main goes down for any reasons (i'm one of the wavebird.party admins!) -- hence why the intro is also mostly copied, because i suck at intros but feel free to ask me stuff</p><p>i am one of the 3 owners of a wii and one of 10 owners of a 3ds on fedi. hit me up if you want some mario kart or smash bros tho :yeah: </p><p>i also do art and try to rewrite my website as i no longer like the way it looks. AI/techbros/fossbros DNI i hate you with every fiber of my being.</p><p>if youre looking to follow a fellow disabled transmasc-revolving fella who games and draws, or youre into similar things, feel free to follow (unless you are under 18 or post content illegal in my jurisdiction)</p><p>fun fact: i love bananas and mangos<br />also plushie collectors pls interact i also collect plushies, here are my plushies (and other toys) below</p><p><a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/gaming\">#<span>gaming</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/VideoGames\">#<span>VideoGames</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/wii\">#<span>wii</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/3ds\">#<span>3ds</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/disabled\">#<span>disabled</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/ActuallyAutistic\">#<span>ActuallyAutistic</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/IndieWeb\">#<span>IndieWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/pokemon\">#<span>pokemon</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/plushie\">#<span>plushie</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/art\">#<span>art</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/DigitalArt\">#<span>DigitalArt</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/ArtistsOnMastodon\">#<span>ArtistsOnMastodon</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/furry\">#<span>furry</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/webmaster\">#<span>webmaster</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/queer\">#<span>queer</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/transmasc\">#<span>transmasc</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/transgender\">#<span>transgender</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/salmacian\">#<span>salmacian</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/LGBTQ\">#<span>LGBTQ</span></a> <a href=\"https://meow.social/tags/BoostMe\">#<span>BoostMe</span></a></p>",
"text": "an #introduction for the alt account\n\nfeel free to call me fami, justin, onemuri; whatever you see fit\ni use it/its pronouns (masc pronouns outside of english) and i am a lot of queer mixed with disability\n\nthis is my alt account in case my main goes down for any reasons (i'm one of the wavebird.party admins!) -- hence why the intro is also mostly copied, because i suck at intros but feel free to ask me stuff\n\ni am one of the 3 owners of a wii and one of 10 owners of a 3ds on fedi. hit me up if you want some mario kart or smash bros tho :yeah: \n\ni also do art and try to rewrite my website as i no longer like the way it looks. AI/techbros/fossbros DNI i hate you with every fiber of my being.\n\nif youre looking to follow a fellow disabled transmasc-revolving fella who games and draws, or youre into similar things, feel free to follow (unless you are under 18 or post content illegal in my jurisdiction)\n\nfun fact: i love bananas and mangos\nalso plushie collectors pls interact i also collect plushies, here are my plushies (and other toys) below\n\n#gaming #VideoGames #wii #3ds #disabled #ActuallyAutistic #IndieWeb #pokemon #plushie #art #DigitalArt #ArtistsOnMastodon #furry #webmaster #queer #transmasc #transgender #salmacian #LGBTQ #BoostMe"
},
"published": "2024-02-16T18:37:11+00:00",
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I made a thing in php. https://social.marisabel.nl still a lot to add like automatic links, callbacks, and images. But once it is all I want, I can try to make it federated. It's fun, but HARD. At least it has rss. #indieweb
{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "@immarisabel",
"url": "https://indieweb.social/@immarisabel",
"photo": null
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"url": "https://indieweb.social/@immarisabel/111942090930783766",
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"html": "<p>I made a thing in php. <a href=\"https://social.marisabel.nl\"><span>https://</span><span>social.marisabel.nl</span><span></span></a> still a lot to add like automatic links, callbacks, and images. But once it is all I want, I can try to make it federated. It's fun, but HARD. At least it has rss. <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a></p>",
"text": "I made a thing in php. https://social.marisabel.nl still a lot to add like automatic links, callbacks, and images. But once it is all I want, I can try to make it federated. It's fun, but HARD. At least it has rss. #indieweb"
},
"published": "2024-02-16T16:25:52+00:00",
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"_id": "40303602",
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{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "@nejimaki",
"url": "https://mstdn.jp/@nejimaki",
"photo": null
},
"url": "https://mstdn.jp/@nejimaki/111941940815176295",
"content": {
"html": "<p>\u30dd\u30c3\u30c9\u30ad\u30e3\u30b9\u30c8\u7528\u306e\u30d6\u30ed\u30b0\u3067\u3001\u30a4\u30f3\u30c7\u30a3\u30fc\u30a6\u30a7\u30d6\u306b\u3064\u3044\u3066\u3061\u3087\u3053\u3061\u3087\u3053\u66f8\u3044\u3066\u307e\u3059\u3002<br /><a href=\"https://nejimaki-radio.com/tag/indieweb/\"><span>https://</span><span>nejimaki-radio.com/tag/indiewe</span><span>b/</span></a> <br /><a href=\"https://mstdn.jp/tags/%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%96\">#<span>\u30a4\u30f3\u30c7\u30a3\u30fc\u30a6\u30a7\u30d6</span></a> <a href=\"https://mstdn.jp/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a></p>",
"text": "\u30dd\u30c3\u30c9\u30ad\u30e3\u30b9\u30c8\u7528\u306e\u30d6\u30ed\u30b0\u3067\u3001\u30a4\u30f3\u30c7\u30a3\u30fc\u30a6\u30a7\u30d6\u306b\u3064\u3044\u3066\u3061\u3087\u3053\u3061\u3087\u3053\u66f8\u3044\u3066\u307e\u3059\u3002\nhttps://nejimaki-radio.com/tag/indieweb/ \n#\u30a4\u30f3\u30c7\u30a3\u30fc\u30a6\u30a7\u30d6 #indieweb"
},
"published": "2024-02-16T15:47:42+00:00",
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40303603",
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I really like personal homepages and have quite a list of them bookmarked. I'll post one every week until I don't. So here's Cool Personal Homepages #CPH Vol. 5: {datagubbe} https://datagubbe.se/
#SmallWeb #indieweb #PersonalSites #homepage
{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "@jlsksr",
"url": "https://mastodon.online/@jlsksr",
"photo": null
},
"url": "https://mastodon.online/@jlsksr/111941679472108587",
"content": {
"html": "<p>I really like personal homepages and have quite a list of them bookmarked. I'll post one every week until I don't. So here's Cool Personal Homepages <a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/CPH\">#<span>CPH</span></a> Vol. 5: {datagubbe} <a href=\"https://datagubbe.se/\"><span>https://</span><span>datagubbe.se/</span><span></span></a></p><p><a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/SmallWeb\">#<span>SmallWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a> <a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/PersonalSites\">#<span>PersonalSites</span></a> <a href=\"https://mastodon.online/tags/homepage\">#<span>homepage</span></a></p>",
"text": "I really like personal homepages and have quite a list of them bookmarked. I'll post one every week until I don't. So here's Cool Personal Homepages #CPH Vol. 5: {datagubbe} https://datagubbe.se/\n\n#SmallWeb #indieweb #PersonalSites #homepage"
},
"published": "2024-02-16T14:41:14+00:00",
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Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I’m back?
Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.
{
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"name": "gRegor Morrill",
"url": "https://gregorlove.com",
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},
"url": "https://gregorlove.com/2024/02/hello-again-micro-blog/",
"content": {
"html": "<p>Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?</p>\n<p>Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.</p>",
"text": "Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?\nShort intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious."
},
"published": "2024-02-16T00:28:00+00:00",
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40300861",
"_source": "7224",
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}
A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted¹ that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.
There is the publicly viewable #OpenWeb that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being #curlable, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.
Then there are the https APIs that return JSON "web", the thing that I’ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I’ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn’t Read) for this #ephemeralWeb, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.
One popular example on that spectrum that’s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I’m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise² over time.)
For example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083
Note: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.
However if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that #queerAF post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:
"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** …"
[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.
Note: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.
To be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.
Nearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.
When a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.
Perhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body.
All reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.
If you’re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.
Because I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.
This design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It’s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.
If that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.
#persistentWeb #longWeb #LongNow
This is post 10 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
API (Application Programming Interface)
https://indieweb.org/API
Bluesky
https://indieweb.org/Bluesky
Bridgy
https://brid.gy/
Bridgy Fed
https://fed.brid.gy/
ccTLD (country-code top level domain)
https://indieweb.org/ccTLD
curlable
https://indieweb.org/curlable
declarative web
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb
Internet Archive
https://archive.org/
js;dr (JavaScript required; Didn’t Read)
https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead
JSON
https://indieweb.org/JSON
longevity
https://indieweb.org/longevity
Mastodon
https://indieweb.org/Mastodon
metaformats
https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats
permalink
https://indieweb.org/permalink
principles in the IndieWeb community
https://indieweb.org/principles
progressive enhancement
https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement
reply
https://indieweb.org/reply
reply-context
https://indieweb.org/reply-context
robots.txt
https://indieweb.org/robots_txt
social media
https://indieweb.org/social_media
silo
https://indieweb.org/silo
View Source
https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html
¹ https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700
² https://indieweb.org/site-deaths
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"text": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted\u00b9 that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.\n\nThere is the publicly viewable #OpenWeb that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being #curlable, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.\n\nThen there are the https APIs that return JSON \"web\", the thing that I\u2019ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I\u2019ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn\u2019t Read) for this #ephemeralWeb, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.\n\n\nOne popular example on that spectrum that\u2019s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I\u2019m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise\u00b2 over time.)\n\nFor example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:\n\nhttps://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083\n\nNote: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.\n\nHowever if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that #queerAF post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:\n\n\u00a0\"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** \u2026\" \u00a0\n\n[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.\n\nNote: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.\n\nTo be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.\n\n\nNearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.\n\nWhen a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.\n\nPerhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body. \u00a0 \n\nAll reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.\n\n\nIf you\u2019re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.\n\nBecause I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.\n\nThis design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It\u2019s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.\n\nIf that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.\n\n#persistentWeb #longWeb #LongNow\n\nThis is post 10 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts\n\n\u2190 https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available\n\u2192 \ud83d\udd2e\n\n\nPost glossary:\n\nAPI (Application Programming Interface)\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/API\nBluesky\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/Bluesky\nBridgy\n\u00a0 https://brid.gy/\nBridgy Fed\n\u00a0 https://fed.brid.gy/\nccTLD (country-code top level domain)\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/ccTLD\ncurlable\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/curlable\ndeclarative web\n\u00a0 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb\nInternet Archive\n\u00a0 https://archive.org/\njs;dr (JavaScript required; Didn\u2019t Read)\n\u00a0 https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead\nJSON\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/JSON\nlongevity\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/longevity\nMastodon\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/Mastodon\nmetaformats\n\u00a0 https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats\npermalink\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/permalink\nprinciples in the IndieWeb community\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/principles\nprogressive enhancement\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement\nreply\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/reply\nreply-context\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/reply-context\nrobots.txt\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/robots_txt\nsocial media\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/social_media\nsilo\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/silo\nView Source\n\u00a0 https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html\n\n\n\u00b9 https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700\n\u00b2 https://indieweb.org/site-deaths",
"html": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #<span class=\"p-category\">indieweb</span> chat channel about how different people view #<span class=\"p-category\">Mastodon</span>, the #<span class=\"p-category\">fediverse</span>, or #<span class=\"p-category\">Bluesky</span>, and services like #<span class=\"p-category\">Bridgy</span> & #<span class=\"p-category\">BridgyFed</span> quite differently, I noted<a href=\"http://tantek.com/#t5VU1_note-1\">\u00b9</a> that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.<br /><br />There is the publicly viewable #<span class=\"p-category\">OpenWeb</span> that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being #<span class=\"p-category\">curlable</span>, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.<br /><br />Then there are the https APIs that return JSON \"web\", the thing that I\u2019ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I\u2019ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn\u2019t Read) for this #<span class=\"p-category\">ephemeralWeb</span>, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.<br /><br /><br />One popular example on that spectrum that\u2019s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I\u2019m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise<a href=\"http://tantek.com/#t5VU1_note-2\">\u00b2</a> over time.)<br /><br />For example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:<br /><br /><a href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083\">https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083</a><br /><br />Note: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.<br /><br />However if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that #<span class=\"p-category\">queerAF</span> post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:<br /><br />\u00a0\"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** \u2026\" \u00a0<br /><br />[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.<br /><br />Note: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.<br /><br />To be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.<br /><br /><br />Nearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.<br /><br />When a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.<br /><br />Perhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body. \u00a0 <br /><br />All reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.<br /><br /><br />If you\u2019re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.<br /><br />Because I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.<br /><br />This design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It\u2019s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.<br /><br />If that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.<br /><br />#<span class=\"p-category\">persistentWeb</span> #<span class=\"p-category\">longWeb</span> #<span class=\"p-category\">LongNow</span><br /><br />This is post 10 of #<span class=\"p-category\">100PostsOfIndieWeb</span>. #<span class=\"p-category\">100Posts</span><br /><br />\u2190 <a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available\">https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available</a><br />\u2192 \ud83d\udd2e<br /><br /><br />Post glossary:<br /><br />API (Application Programming Interface)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/API\">https://indieweb.org/API</a><br />Bluesky<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Bluesky\">https://indieweb.org/Bluesky</a><br />Bridgy<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://brid.gy/\">https://brid.gy/</a><br />Bridgy Fed<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://fed.brid.gy/\">https://fed.brid.gy/</a><br />ccTLD (country-code top level domain)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/ccTLD\">https://indieweb.org/ccTLD</a><br />curlable<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/curlable\">https://indieweb.org/curlable</a><br />declarative web<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb\">https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb</a><br />Internet Archive<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://archive.org/\">https://archive.org/</a><br />js;dr (JavaScript required; Didn\u2019t Read)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead\">https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead</a><br />JSON<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/JSON\">https://indieweb.org/JSON</a><br />longevity<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/longevity\">https://indieweb.org/longevity</a><br />Mastodon<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Mastodon\">https://indieweb.org/Mastodon</a><br />metaformats<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats\">https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats</a><br />permalink<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/permalink\">https://indieweb.org/permalink</a><br />principles in the IndieWeb community<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/principles\">https://indieweb.org/principles</a><br />progressive enhancement<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement\">https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement</a><br />reply<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/reply\">https://indieweb.org/reply</a><br />reply-context<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/reply-context\">https://indieweb.org/reply-context</a><br />robots.txt<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/robots_txt\">https://indieweb.org/robots_txt</a><br />social media<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/social_media\">https://indieweb.org/social_media</a><br />silo<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/silo\">https://indieweb.org/silo</a><br />View Source<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html\">https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html</a><br /><br /><br /><a href=\"http://tantek.com/#t5VU1_ref-1\">\u00b9</a> <a href=\"https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700\">https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700</a><br /><a href=\"http://tantek.com/#t5VU1_ref-2\">\u00b2</a> <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/site-deaths\">https://indieweb.org/site-deaths</a>"
},
"author": {
"type": "card",
"name": "Tantek \u00c7elik",
"url": "http://tantek.com/",
"photo": "https://aperture-media.p3k.io/tantek.com/acfddd7d8b2c8cf8aa163651432cc1ec7eb8ec2f881942dca963d305eeaaa6b8.jpg"
},
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40298837",
"_source": "1",
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Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I’m back?
Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.
{
"type": "entry",
"published": "2024-02-15 16:28-0800",
"url": "https://gregorlove.com/2024/02/hello-again-micro-blog/",
"content": {
"text": "Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?\n\nShort intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.",
"html": "<p>Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?</p>\n\n<p>Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.</p>"
},
"author": {
"type": "card",
"name": "gRegor Morrill",
"url": "https://gregorlove.com/",
"photo": "https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/6268/profile-2021-square.300x0.jpg"
},
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40298654",
"_source": "95",
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{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "@bryanmanio",
"url": "https://indieweb.social/@bryanmanio",
"photo": null
},
"url": "https://indieweb.social/@bryanmanio/111938599661074665",
"content": {
"html": "<p>I love <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/arcbrowser\">#<span>arcbrowser</span></a> but hate how it broke all my chrome bookmarklets. Turns out there is an easy fix.</p><p><a href=\"https://bryanmanio.com/blog/how-to-fix-bookmarklets-in-arc-browser/\"><span>https://</span><span>bryanmanio.com/blog/how-to-fix</span><span>-bookmarklets-in-arc-browser/</span></a></p><p><a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/indieweb\">#<span>indieweb</span></a> <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/blogging\">#<span>blogging</span></a></p>",
"text": "I love #arcbrowser but hate how it broke all my chrome bookmarklets. Turns out there is an easy fix.\n\nhttps://bryanmanio.com/blog/how-to-fix-bookmarklets-in-arc-browser/\n\n#indieweb #blogging"
},
"published": "2024-02-16T01:38:00+00:00",
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40298206",
"_source": "8007",
"_is_read": false
}
Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I’m back?
Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.
{
"type": "entry",
"published": "2024-02-15 16:28-0800",
"url": "https://gregorlove.com/2024/02/hello-again-micro-blog/",
"content": {
"text": "Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?\n\nShort intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.",
"html": "<p>Hello again, micro.blog! I dropped off here in 2020 due to technical issues apparently, but I think I\u2019m back?</p>\n\n<p>Short intro: gRegor, he/him, San Diego, try to make people laugh (or groan from puns), software developer, IndieWeb enthusiast, and COVID cautious.</p>"
},
"author": {
"type": "card",
"name": "gRegor Morrill",
"url": "https://gregorlove.com/",
"photo": "https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/6268/profile-2021-square.300x0.jpg"
},
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40297756",
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A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted¹ that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditi... tantek.com
{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "#indieweb",
"url": "https://mastodon.social/tags/indieweb",
"photo": null
},
"url": "https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web",
"content": {
"html": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted\u00b9 that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditi... <a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web\">tantek.com</a>",
"text": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted\u00b9 that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditi... tantek.com"
},
"published": "2024-02-15T21:18:00+00:00",
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40297457",
"_source": "8007",
"_is_read": false
}
A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted¹ that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.
There is the publicly viewable #OpenWeb that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being #curlable, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.
Then there are the https APIs that return JSON "web", the thing that I’ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I’ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn’t Read) for this #ephemeralWeb, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.
One popular example on that spectrum that’s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I’m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise² over time.)
For example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083
Note: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.
However if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that #queerAF post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:
"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** …"
[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.
Note: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.
To be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.
Nearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.
When a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.
Perhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body.
All reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.
If you’re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.
Because I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.
This design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It’s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.
If that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.
#persistentWeb #longWeb #LongNow
This is post 10 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
API (Application Programming Interface)
https://indieweb.org/API
Bluesky
https://indieweb.org/Bluesky
Bridgy
https://brid.gy/
Bridgy Fed
https://fed.brid.gy/
ccTLD (country-code top level domain)
https://indieweb.org/ccTLD
curlable
https://indieweb.org/curlable
declarative web
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb
Internet Archive
https://archive.org/
js;dr (JavaScript required; Didn’t Read)
https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead
JSON
https://indieweb.org/JSON
longevity
https://indieweb.org/longevity
Mastodon
https://indieweb.org/Mastodon
metaformats
https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats
permalink
https://indieweb.org/permalink
principles in the IndieWeb community
https://indieweb.org/principles
progressive enhancement
https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement
reply
https://indieweb.org/reply
reply-context
https://indieweb.org/reply-context
robots.txt
https://indieweb.org/robots_txt
social media
https://indieweb.org/social_media
silo
https://indieweb.org/silo
View Source
https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html
¹ https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700
² https://indieweb.org/site-deaths
{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "#indieweb",
"url": "https://mastodon.social/tags/indieweb",
"photo": null
},
"url": "https://fed.brid.gy/r/https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web",
"content": {
"html": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/indieweb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">indieweb</span></a> chat channel about how different people view <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/Mastodon\">#<span class=\"p-category\">Mastodon</span></a>, the <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/fediverse\">#<span class=\"p-category\">fediverse</span></a>, or <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/Bluesky\">#<span class=\"p-category\">Bluesky</span></a>, and services like <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/Bridgy\">#<span class=\"p-category\">Bridgy</span></a> & <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/BridgyFed\">#<span class=\"p-category\">BridgyFed</span></a> quite differently, I noted<a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web#t5VU1_note-1\">\u00b9</a> that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.<br /><br />There is the publicly viewable <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/OpenWeb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">OpenWeb</span></a> that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/curlable\">#<span class=\"p-category\">curlable</span></a>, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.<br /><br />Then there are the https APIs that return JSON \"web\", the thing that I\u2019ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I\u2019ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn\u2019t Read) for this <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/ephemeralWeb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">ephemeralWeb</span></a>, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.<br /><br /><br />One popular example on that spectrum that\u2019s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I\u2019m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise<a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web#t5VU1_note-2\">\u00b2</a> over time.)<br /><br />For example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:<br /><br /><a href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083\">https://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083</a><br /><br />Note: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.<br /><br />However if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/queerAF\">#<span class=\"p-category\">queerAF</span></a> post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:<br /><br />\u00a0\"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** \u2026\" \u00a0<br /><br />[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.<br /><br />Note: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.<br /><br />To be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.<br /><br /><br />Nearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.<br /><br />When a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.<br /><br />Perhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body. \u00a0 <br /><br />All reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.<br /><br /><br />If you\u2019re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.<br /><br />Because I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.<br /><br />This design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It\u2019s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.<br /><br />If that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.<br /><br /><a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/persistentWeb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">persistentWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/longWeb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">longWeb</span></a> <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/LongNow\">#<span class=\"p-category\">LongNow</span></a><br /><br />This is post 10 of <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/100PostsOfIndieWeb\">#<span class=\"p-category\">100PostsOfIndieWeb</span></a>. <a href=\"https://indieweb.social/tags/100Posts\">#<span class=\"p-category\">100Posts</span></a><br /><br />\u2190 <a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available\">https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available</a><br />\u2192 \ud83d\udd2e<br /><br /><br />Post glossary:<br /><br />API (Application Programming Interface)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/API\">https://indieweb.org/API</a><br />Bluesky<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Bluesky\">https://indieweb.org/Bluesky</a><br />Bridgy<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://brid.gy/\">https://brid.gy/</a><br />Bridgy Fed<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://fed.brid.gy/\">https://fed.brid.gy/</a><br />ccTLD (country-code top level domain)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/ccTLD\">https://indieweb.org/ccTLD</a><br />curlable<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/curlable\">https://indieweb.org/curlable</a><br />declarative web<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb\">https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb</a><br />Internet Archive<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://archive.org/\">https://archive.org/</a><br />js;dr (JavaScript required; Didn\u2019t Read)<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead\">https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead</a><br />JSON<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/JSON\">https://indieweb.org/JSON</a><br />longevity<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/longevity\">https://indieweb.org/longevity</a><br />Mastodon<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/Mastodon\">https://indieweb.org/Mastodon</a><br />metaformats<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats\">https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats</a><br />permalink<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/permalink\">https://indieweb.org/permalink</a><br />principles in the IndieWeb community<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/principles\">https://indieweb.org/principles</a><br />progressive enhancement<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement\">https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement</a><br />reply<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/reply\">https://indieweb.org/reply</a><br />reply-context<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/reply-context\">https://indieweb.org/reply-context</a><br />robots.txt<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/robots_txt\">https://indieweb.org/robots_txt</a><br />social media<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/social_media\">https://indieweb.org/social_media</a><br />silo<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/silo\">https://indieweb.org/silo</a><br />View Source<br />\u00a0 <a href=\"https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html\">https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html</a><br /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web#t5VU1_ref-1\">\u00b9</a> <a href=\"https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700\">https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700</a><br /><a href=\"https://tantek.com/2024/046/t1/the-ephemeral-web#t5VU1_ref-2\">\u00b2</a> <a href=\"https://indieweb.org/site-deaths\">https://indieweb.org/site-deaths</a>",
"text": "A couple of days ago in an informal discussion in the #indieweb chat channel about how different people view #Mastodon, the #fediverse, or #Bluesky, and services like #Bridgy & #BridgyFed quite differently, I noted\u00b9 that one big unspoken difference was how things on the web last over time, from the traditional persistent web, vs the newer and growing ephemeral web.\n\nThere is the publicly viewable #OpenWeb that many of us take for granted, meaning the web that is persistent, that lasts over time, and thanks to being #curlable, that the Internet Archive archives, and that a plurality of search engines see and index (robots.txt allowing). The HTML + CSS + media files declarative web.\n\nThen there are the https APIs that return JSON \"web\", the thing that I\u2019ve started calling the ephemeral web, the set of things that are here today, briefly, gone tomorrow. I\u2019ve previously used the more provocative phrase js;dr (JavaScript required, Didn\u2019t Read) for this #ephemeralWeb, yet like many things, it turns out there is a spectrum from ephemeral to persistent.\n\n\nOne popular example on that spectrum that\u2019s closer to the ephemeral edge is anything on a Mastodon server running v4 (or later as of this writing) of the software. (I\u2019m not bothering to discuss the examples of walled garden social media silos because I expect we will continue to see their demise\u00b2 over time.)\n\nFor example, the Internet Archive version of the shutdown notice for the queer(.)af Mastodon server, is visibly blank:\n\nhttps://web.archive.org/web/20240112165635/https://queer.af/@postmaster/111733741786950083\n\nNote: only a single Internet Archive snapshot was made of that post.\n\nHowever if you View Source, you can find the entirety of that #queerAF post duplicated across a couple of invisible-to-the-user meta tags inside the raw HTML:\n\n\u00a0\"**TL;DR: Queer[.]AF will close on 2024-04-12** \u2026\" \u00a0\n\n[.] added to avoid linking to a dead domain.\n\nNote: such meta tags in js;dr pages were part of the motivation to specify metaformats.\n\nTo be clear, the shutdown of queer(.)af was a tragedy and not the fault of the creators, administrators etc., but rather one of the unfortunate outcomes of using some ccTLDs, country-code top level domains, that risk sudden draconian rules, domain renewal price hikes, or other unpredictable risks due to the politics, turmoil, regime changes etc. of the countries that administrate such domains.\n\n\nNearly the entirety of every Mastodon server, every post, every reply, is ephemeral.\n\nWhen a Mastodon server shuts down, all its posts disappear from the surface of the web, forever.\n\nPerhaps internet archeologists of the future will discover such dead permalinks, check the Internet Archive, find apparent desolation, and a few of them will be curious enough to use View Source tools to unearth parts of those posts, unintentionally preserved inside ceremonial meta tags next to dead scripts disconnected from databases and an empty shell of a body. \u00a0 \n\nAll reply-contexts of and replies to such posts and conversations lost, like threads unraveled from an ancient tapestry, scattered to the winds.\n\n\nIf you\u2019re reading this post in your Mastodon reader, on either the website of your Mastodon account, or in a proprietary native client application, you should be able to click through, perhaps on the date-time stamp displayed to you, to view the original post on my website, where it is served in relatively simple declarative HTML + CSS with a bit of progressive enhancement script.\n\nBecause I serve declarative content, my posts are both findable across a variety of services & search engines, and archived by the Internet Archive. Even if my site goes down, snapshots or archives will be viewable elsewhere, with nearly the same fidelity of viewing them directly on my site.\n\nThis design for longevity is both deliberate, and the default for which the web was designed. It\u2019s also one of the explicit principles in the IndieWeb community.\n\nIf that resonates with you, if creating, writing, & building things that last matter to you, choose web tools, services, and software that support the persistence & longevity of your work.\n\n#persistentWeb #longWeb #LongNow\n\nThis is post 10 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts\n\n\u2190 https://tantek.com/2024/035/t2/indiewebcamp-brighton-tickets-available\n\u2192 \ud83d\udd2e\n\n\nPost glossary:\n\nAPI (Application Programming Interface)\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/API\nBluesky\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/Bluesky\nBridgy\n\u00a0 https://brid.gy/\nBridgy Fed\n\u00a0 https://fed.brid.gy/\nccTLD (country-code top level domain)\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/ccTLD\ncurlable\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/curlable\ndeclarative web\n\u00a0 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/webvision/full/#thedeclarativeweb\nInternet Archive\n\u00a0 https://archive.org/\njs;dr (JavaScript required; Didn\u2019t Read)\n\u00a0 https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead\nJSON\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/JSON\nlongevity\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/longevity\nMastodon\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/Mastodon\nmetaformats\n\u00a0 https://microformats.org/wiki/metaformats\npermalink\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/permalink\nprinciples in the IndieWeb community\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/principles\nprogressive enhancement\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement\nreply\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/reply\nreply-context\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/reply-context\nrobots.txt\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/robots_txt\nsocial media\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/social_media\nsilo\n\u00a0 https://indieweb.org/silo\nView Source\n\u00a0 https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/view_source/index.html\n\n\n\u00b9 https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-02-13#t1707845454695700\n\u00b2 https://indieweb.org/site-deaths"
},
"published": "2024-02-15T21:18:00+00:00",
"post-type": "note",
"_id": "40297458",
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{
"type": "entry",
"author": {
"name": "Manton Reece",
"url": "https://www.manton.org/",
"photo": "https://micro.blog/manton/avatar.jpg"
},
"url": "https://www.manton.org/2024/02/15/mastodon-and-public.html",
"name": "Mastodon and public data",
"content": {
"html": "<p>I\u2019ve been thinking about Mastodon and the fallout from Bridgy\u2019s plan to connect ActivityPub servers to Bluesky. For a snapshot of how this blew up, <a href=\"https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/835\">see this GitHub issue</a> discussion, now thankfully closed after it devolved into personal attacks.</p>\n<p>It often feels that (some) Mastodon folks care more about Mastodon as a platform than they care about the open web as a platform. I\u2019m not sure if that\u2019s a completely fair framing, but thinking about it this way has helped clarify my view of debates around public posts.</p>\n<p>When I post to my blog, my posts are on the web, and so hopefully make the web a little better. I\u2019m contributing to sort of a larger purpose, something I can refer to later myself, and maybe something others will find value in too. It\u2019s a subtly different mindset than posting to a specific platform where I mostly expect my followers to see it.</p>\n<p>My blog is connected via ActivityPub to Mastodon, and via cross-posting to Bluesky, Nostr, Threads, and elsewhere. But I could disconnect those platforms and it wouldn\u2019t change much about how I post and what I write about.</p>\n<p>That\u2019s not to say there aren\u2019t great reasons to prefer a smaller, more controlled audience. We have Mastodon post visibility to limit who can see posts. We have robots.txt to discourage search engines. We have settings to make posts ephemeral. As Bridgy developer Ryan Barrett said himself <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/14/bluesky-and-mastodon-users-are-having-a-fight-that-could-shape-the-next-generation-of-social-media/\">in an article on TechCrunch</a>, this level of control is one thing that has made Mastodon a good online home for many people:</p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>A lot of the people there, especially people who have been there for a while, came from more traditional centralized social networks and got mistreated and abused there, so they came looking for and tried to put together a space that was safer, smaller and more controlled. They expect consent for anything they do with their data.</p>\n</blockquote>\n<p>I respect this view. It\u2019s not how I approach my own blog, but I would never argue that someone shouldn\u2019t be able to protect themselves. There should be a variety of approaches in between sharing everything online and sharing nothing.</p>\n<p>And we do have additional solutions already. Mastodon server administrators can block other servers that are causing problems. Users can mute or block other users. These solutions apply equally to Mastodon servers and to a potential Bluesky bridge.</p>\n<p>If there are no technical differences between blocking a rogue Mastodon server and a Bluesky bridge, what are people truly concerned about? It often appears to get back to identifying with Mastodon and its principles, and inherently distrusting other companies, fearing a return to the worst of massive, centralized platforms.</p>\n<p>If this sounds familiar, it\u2019s not unlike the reaction many had when Threads was rumored to support ActivityPub. I blogged about this <a href=\"https://www.manton.org/2023/06/27/lets-welcome-meta.html\">last year</a>, hoping more people would see it as a positive step forward:</p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>Meta adopting ActivityPub has the potential to fast-forward the progress of the social web by years. Ever since I grew disillusioned with Twitter a decade ago and started pushing for indie microblogs, then <a href=\"https://book.micro.blog/\">writing a book</a> about social networks and founding <a href=\"https://micro.blog/\">Micro.blog</a>, I could only dream of a moment where a massive tech company embraced such a fundamental open API.</p>\n</blockquote>\n<p>Smaller social networks are an important part of finding our way out of the social network mess of larger, especially ad-based platforms. Mastodon deserves enormous credit for making federation and smaller servers actually work. I can\u2019t overstate how significant it was for Mastodon to be a mature platform that could welcome users leaving Twitter X.</p>\n<p>Federation is just one part of the progress we can make, though. We also need to embrace the open web again, encouraging more people to have their own blog and identity online. Bridgy has been working toward these goals for years, helping people connect their blog to other social networks.</p>\n<p>My concern with some Mastodon users (again, not everyone!) pushing back against interoperability with non-Mastodon platforms is that it moves Mastodon away from the open web, which is surely at odds with the original purpose of Mastodon and many of its features, from an open client API to federation itself. We can already see some signs of Mastodon putting up slight roadblocks to open web access. For example, permalink posts on Mastodon require JavaScript \u2014\u00a0you can\u2019t view HTML source and get the post details, making it a little more difficult to build tools that understand Mastodon pages. At the API level, some servers also require signed ActivityPub requests, making it a little more difficult to look up user profiles.</p>\n<p>The developer community for Mastodon is free to make any of these decisions they want. To play this out to its most extreme version, they could even disable RSS feeds, treating Mastodon servers more like protected, mini silos.</p>\n<p>But moving away from openness will not only limit the potential of the fediverse, it risks holding back the larger social web. If there\u2019s a knee-jerk reaction to interoperability with other platforms, Mastodon may find that its head start as the largest federated platform becomes eroded, eclipsed by Bluesky and other platforms. I would ask the folks on Mastodon who are so strongly against bridging to Bluesky if that\u2019s the future they really want.</p>",
"text": "I\u2019ve been thinking about Mastodon and the fallout from Bridgy\u2019s plan to connect ActivityPub servers to Bluesky. For a snapshot of how this blew up, see this GitHub issue discussion, now thankfully closed after it devolved into personal attacks.\nIt often feels that (some) Mastodon folks care more about Mastodon as a platform than they care about the open web as a platform. I\u2019m not sure if that\u2019s a completely fair framing, but thinking about it this way has helped clarify my view of debates around public posts.\nWhen I post to my blog, my posts are on the web, and so hopefully make the web a little better. I\u2019m contributing to sort of a larger purpose, something I can refer to later myself, and maybe something others will find value in too. It\u2019s a subtly different mindset than posting to a specific platform where I mostly expect my followers to see it.\nMy blog is connected via ActivityPub to Mastodon, and via cross-posting to Bluesky, Nostr, Threads, and elsewhere. But I could disconnect those platforms and it wouldn\u2019t change much about how I post and what I write about.\nThat\u2019s not to say there aren\u2019t great reasons to prefer a smaller, more controlled audience. We have Mastodon post visibility to limit who can see posts. We have robots.txt to discourage search engines. We have settings to make posts ephemeral. As Bridgy developer Ryan Barrett said himself in an article on TechCrunch, this level of control is one thing that has made Mastodon a good online home for many people:\n\nA lot of the people there, especially people who have been there for a while, came from more traditional centralized social networks and got mistreated and abused there, so they came looking for and tried to put together a space that was safer, smaller and more controlled. They expect consent for anything they do with their data.\n\nI respect this view. It\u2019s not how I approach my own blog, but I would never argue that someone shouldn\u2019t be able to protect themselves. There should be a variety of approaches in between sharing everything online and sharing nothing.\nAnd we do have additional solutions already. Mastodon server administrators can block other servers that are causing problems. Users can mute or block other users. These solutions apply equally to Mastodon servers and to a potential Bluesky bridge.\nIf there are no technical differences between blocking a rogue Mastodon server and a Bluesky bridge, what are people truly concerned about? It often appears to get back to identifying with Mastodon and its principles, and inherently distrusting other companies, fearing a return to the worst of massive, centralized platforms.\nIf this sounds familiar, it\u2019s not unlike the reaction many had when Threads was rumored to support ActivityPub. I blogged about this last year, hoping more people would see it as a positive step forward:\n\nMeta adopting ActivityPub has the potential to fast-forward the progress of the social web by years. Ever since I grew disillusioned with Twitter a decade ago and started pushing for indie microblogs, then writing a book about social networks and founding Micro.blog, I could only dream of a moment where a massive tech company embraced such a fundamental open API.\n\nSmaller social networks are an important part of finding our way out of the social network mess of larger, especially ad-based platforms. Mastodon deserves enormous credit for making federation and smaller servers actually work. I can\u2019t overstate how significant it was for Mastodon to be a mature platform that could welcome users leaving Twitter X.\nFederation is just one part of the progress we can make, though. We also need to embrace the open web again, encouraging more people to have their own blog and identity online. Bridgy has been working toward these goals for years, helping people connect their blog to other social networks.\nMy concern with some Mastodon users (again, not everyone!) pushing back against interoperability with non-Mastodon platforms is that it moves Mastodon away from the open web, which is surely at odds with the original purpose of Mastodon and many of its features, from an open client API to federation itself. We can already see some signs of Mastodon putting up slight roadblocks to open web access. For example, permalink posts on Mastodon require JavaScript \u2014\u00a0you can\u2019t view HTML source and get the post details, making it a little more difficult to build tools that understand Mastodon pages. At the API level, some servers also require signed ActivityPub requests, making it a little more difficult to look up user profiles.\nThe developer community for Mastodon is free to make any of these decisions they want. To play this out to its most extreme version, they could even disable RSS feeds, treating Mastodon servers more like protected, mini silos.\nBut moving away from openness will not only limit the potential of the fediverse, it risks holding back the larger social web. If there\u2019s a knee-jerk reaction to interoperability with other platforms, Mastodon may find that its head start as the largest federated platform becomes eroded, eclipsed by Bluesky and other platforms. I would ask the folks on Mastodon who are so strongly against bridging to Bluesky if that\u2019s the future they really want."
},
"published": "2024-02-15T14:23:32-06:00",
"category": [
"Essays"
],
"post-type": "article",
"_id": "40295874",
"_source": "12",
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}